#CSH Episode 7:

⏱️ Timestamps:

00:00 - A blonde debut

01:57 - Climbing the CS ladder

02:30 - Finding your “why” in leadership

04:00 - Managing expectations upfront

06:16 - Organizational philosophy on CS

08:01 - Asking for support as a leader

09:14 - Realistic targets and KPIs

11:43 - Knowing the team dynamics

13:28 - Investing in leadership development

16:08 - Product innovation and customer value

18:47 - Wrapping up 2024 and looking ahead

📺 Lifetime Value: Your Destination for GTM content

https://www.lifetimevaluemedia.com

💁‍♀️💁‍♂️ Connect with the hosts:

Kristi Faltorusso's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristiserrano/

Kristi's website: https://www.kristifaltorusso.com/

Stijn "Stino" Smet's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stijn-smet-%F0%9F%90%B3-330435a9/

Key topics: leadership, career journey, management, new leader, promotion

[Stino]

Ring ring, hello! It's a new episode of the CS Hotline. I was dying to use this as an intro.

And there you have it.

[Kristi]

I guess that's what we got then.

[Stino]

Like, skip the initial intro. This is going to be the new soundbite of the intro of a new episode of the Customer Success Hotline. No, I'm super happy that we're doing this again.

Like, we got out of the pajamas. I did. Got blonde hair.

[Kristi]

Ah, you see that. We're going through some transformation before we go into the new year. I could appreciate that.

[Stino]

Yeah, I think so. Like, that's the thing though. Whenever I have, like, not a mental breakdown, but whenever I'm at the hairdresser, I'm like, let's switch it up.

I want to be, like, completely new. And then it's, like, good for, like, two seconds. And I'm like, yeah, no.

Maybe I need to go ginger next time.

[Kristi]

Oh my gosh. So, you know, listen, I will privately send you some pictures of when I attempted to be blonde. Blonde, blonde.

And I will tell you the tears that my husband and daughter cried when I made this attempt. Apparently, I'm just a brunette, and that is my family's preference for me. So, I can't get as creative as you get, because I got an army of people who really have a very specific way they'd like to see me show up.

[Stino]

Really? Well, the thing was the last time, before this, I got pink. Well, like, rosé, washed out pink.

Oh, I like that. I love that as well. But then I went to my boyfriend and he was like, Halloween was last week.

What are you doing? And I was like, caught it.

[Kristi]

Sassy.

[Stino]

He is. He is quiet. But when he opens his mouth, he will read me.

He will read me like a scripture. That's one gift of him.

[Kristi]

Well, the blonde looks great. So, that said, what do we got going on this morning?

[Stino]

We have a question of, let me get the name right, Tziva. And she wants to know, if you're looking for a leadership role in CS, what are the red flags to be aware of? And I found a really interesting question, because we're all obsessed climbing that career ladder, that we stare into the sun, but not necessarily be aware of the red flags.

It's like dating that toxic boyfriend that you're like, I want him because he's so good to me, but he's also so bad. So, what are the red flags?

[Kristi]

Okay, I'm not going to rattle off all of them, so that way we can have a nice, healthy exchange. But can I just say something first? I think anybody who is in an IC role, who is interested in going into a leadership role, can we start by getting clear on your why?

I feel like so many times people are just like, they think that the next move is people leadership. And so, that is what they're striving for. And I get it, it seems appealing, but people leadership, and especially in customer success, is so difficult.

So, I don't want to deter anybody. We're going to go through all the things you need to pay attention to, but I would just advise anybody to just get really clear on your why do you want to be in that role? And if any of your whys, even one of them, feels overly selfish, this may not be the next step for you.

And I say that because this role really requires you to be a giver, not a taker, right? Whether it's for your people, for your customers, for your company. And so, you need to be able to step into this opportunity with this mindset of, I am going to be giving, and I want to be in this role because I want to make an impact, and I want to see my customers be successful, and I want to make sure that the people around me are successful.

If any of your core reasons are about you, I don't know, maybe pause, because I think that it'll just make it a little bit more challenging as you get settled in. So, I don't know. Stino, what are your thoughts on that, just kind of as a baseline?

[Stino]

Same. So, for me, it was like when I got offered a position as a first-time leader, I was my own biggest red flag, I would say. Because as a thing, we get trained, or we have this career path that everyone has.

You start out as a junior, go into like a senior lead, go into that like more than responsible, like you always want more, whatever your upbringing is. But that's what we've learned to do, like we want to be more, we always want to aim high. So, in that sense, I was my own red flag, because the title is very shiny, but that only lasts for 10 seconds.

[Kristi]

Yeah, like the 10 seconds on the offer letter that you're given when you sign it, and then everything is downhill from there.

[Stino]

You sign your soul away. No, no, but it's also the most rewarding role that I've ever been in. But that's the thing though, like you need to easily be aware of like the red flags.

And the first one that I would say is also like get the expectations yourself. And like what is expected from you in this role? Well, because everyone has different expectations of a head of, like I went in, and again, I'm so dumb for that, but like I went in with zero expectations.

I was like, it's basically what I'm doing right now. But basically as well, just steering the team, what I've been doing for the last three years, I need to steer my team and expecting them to do what I have been doing prior when I was in the head of the CS role. So, I think the main red flag that I was like, just blind for was the expectations.

What was expected from me? That was the main, not the main, but one of the main red flags that I came across too. So, definitely ask, if you get presented the opportunity, don't be afraid to ask the difficult questions.

Like what is expected from me in terms of KPIs, of goals that I need to hit? What is the direction the company is going in for the next year? All of those questions are able to manage the expectations and making you feel more secure going into that role, because I was trying to figure that out already in the role.

And let me tell you, that was the best place to be in.

[Kristi]

Yeah. It's a lot harder when you're doing it from that position. Okay.

Another red flag, you need to understand everyone in the organization, but specifically the CEO's philosophy on customer success. You'll never meet a CEO who doesn't say, yeah, like I want my customers to be successful. I mean, that's how we're going to grow a business, right?

Like I think as a baseline statement, everyone will say the same thing, but actions speak louder than words. So, you need to understand what the organizational philosophy, especially senior leadership is around customer success. Not the team necessarily, right?

Customer success as an outcome, because we also know having been in customer success, and hopefully this person has had a couple of years in a CS role, you understand that our customers can only be successful if all of the things are working, right? The product has to do what the product needs to do. We need to support them the proper way.

We have to have the right tools, the right support, the right resources. Sales has to set expectations upfront. Marketing needs to make sure that we're targeting the right people to bring into the business.

If the entire company's philosophy around customer success isn't correct, isn't aligned, doesn't make sense, and isn't set up to make the function successful, that's going to be a huge red flag.

[Stino]

That will be the red flag.

[Kristi]

Right. I mean, like not to be like we should just stop there, but like that is kind of where you got to start because every single person I hear who struggles with their role is because they don't feel supported, right? And so you need to understand what is the organization's philosophy on it, and then what is the support you can expect based on what that response is.

[Stino]

Yeah, and I do love the fact from that support point of view, especially for first-time leaders, because if you're looking for your first head-off, teammate, whatever role, don't be afraid to ask the question on how you are going to be supported in that role, because what I found is that a lot of senior leadership, if they're looking for the next senior leader within NCS, is that they often forget if they hire a first-timer, it's also their first time leading a team.

That means that they're back in a junior position, which also means they need to be supported. I got very lucky. I have the best support system at Will ever.

Like they are my ride-or-dies. I can fuck up numerous times and they would still have my back. So I love that.

But also dare, ask what that support system is going to look like, not only for you and the team, but also for you professionally, if you have questions. That's the thing though, you need to grow into that role as well. That is something new.

And if there isn't training budget, for instance, or the room to network or connect with people that are in the same position as you, or even like have been in a position for quite some time, you're fucked.

[Kristi]

Yeah. Yes. Sadly, without a doubt.

I would say another red flag to pay attention to, the targets. If you are being asked to do the impossible, you're going to fail, right? So if the companies churn right now, and we'll just say like revenue churn is you're at, I don't know, 75% and your leader believes that this number needs to be 85% in a year, 95% in a year, you're going to fail, right?

We know that churn retention growth, these are lagging indicators, and it takes a long time to move those metrics points like that's significant. So you need to understand very explicitly, what are the targets that you are being measured against? This is kind of in line with the expectations that you talked about, but being a little bit more specific around the KPIs, you need to understand what are you being asked to achieve and in what period of time.

And then you've got to figure out, is that possible? Like literally, is that possible? And don't take on something and think that you're a hero and that all of a sudden you'll be able to do that.

Because I will tell you, having done this for as long as I have, it is hard. And sometimes it is impossible, because it's not just your ability to build that process and do these things. You've got the market against you, you've got your customers against you, the product, you've got enough things working against you that you have to remember this number isn't yours alone to own.

So if you are not being set with, we'll say, I want you to say achievable, we want them to be reached targets, but they have to be realistic to some extent. So I would definitely ask questions very specifically around what are the KPIs that I'm being tasked to achieve? I would also ask questions around what happens if I don't achieve them?

Because I don't think that we have, we don't have that conversation. Nobody asks, am I going to get fired? Am I going to get fired?

What happens? Am I just not eligible for the next promotion? Are you going to provide me some coaching?

What happens if I don't achieve that number? On the flip side, though, what happens if I do achieve that? We need to ask those questions.

But if your targets are not realistic, if your KPIs aren't realistic, you're going to be in a pickle.

[Stino]

Yeah. No, I do. Indeed, we don't have that difficult conversation because we're scared of the answer.

It's like, if we don't reach that, what happens?

[Kristi]

Right. I want to know, am I going to get fired and replaced? And if that's the outcome, okay, cool.

Then can we come, do we come up with a better number then? But that's the conversation that needs to happen.

[Stino]

Yeah, 100%. And the other thing, if it's an internal promotion, it's the thing that I'm now going to say it's more for maybe when you're applying to a new company is get to know the team. That is something also that is super overlooked because if you're going into a team lead position or more like a senior leadership position, you need to steer people.

You need to coach people. Like you said in the very beginning of this episode, you're a giver. You're not a taker.

So in that sense as well, you need to also get along with your team. That is the most important stuff because it all comes together because it's, if you want to reach those targets, you need to work together as a team. You need to coach your team.

You need to be the translator between the leadership and your team and vice versa. So in that sense, like also don't be afraid to get to know the team way beforehand. It has a different connotation if it's an internal promotion.

In that sense, I would still be like very open and transparent that if once you get it, that you check with the team or like that's what we did internally at my first job. The position opened up and I knew three of us were eligible, but we had that conversation between the three of us. And I was like, it's yours because I know you're more fit for the job right now.

So I took a step aside. So in that sense, it makes it also easier to work then together with that new team because you have that conversation internally. So the possible red flag would be like, if you're not comfortable with the team, don't go for that position because it will fail.

It will make you fail to hit those targets maybe because people maybe don't respect you or don't see you with the necessary respect.

[Kristi]

That's such a great point. And in that same vein, another red flag would be is if you're stepping into a new leadership role and if whether it's your first time or it's a new position in the company, I think also have the conversations around how are they investing in you. If you're a first time leader and you've never led people before and you're not getting the proper coaching and training, you're not going to be successful.

We see leaders fail so many times and we also see teams fail because of bad leaders. Now, here's the thing. You can't just wing it and figure it out.

I did that my entire career. It does not work. I promise you.

You cannot do that. At some point, the company has to be willing to make investments in you around some leadership training. So I would ask some questions around how are you going to invest in my professional development to be successful in this role?

And if they say nothing or I don't know, go figure it out, get a mentor or something like that. Like if they are not willing to commit to you some way they are going to continue to uplevel your skills so you can be the most successful, again, you're not going to meet their expectations and then they're just going to feel like you can't do the job. But we can't do jobs that we haven't been trained to do where we don't have the skills yet and it's not that you can't develop them but you need to work at that and they should be making that investment.

[Stino]

Yeah, 100%. Like indeed that budget around that as well. Also the thing if you're stepping into more earlier companies, early startups, like is there a budget for like your tech tool stack?

And I know we've been on for five episodes already, data, data, data, data, but also here it's still a very important chapter to like open and that is like what is the company providing you as well? Not only in your personal development but also what are the tools, what is the access to budget that you're having to get the tools at hand to do the shit that you are supposed to do? So in that sense as well if they're like yeah we want to make your head of customer success because you've been doing an amazing job, just the title and you need to hit these KPIs but if they don't invest to you in a professional development one way but also in like okay we're going to scale it up tech to tech tool stack wise again.

Okay you have Excel, I do, we have.

[Kristi]

We know that Excel works but we also know that there's other tools out there that help make our jobs easier and better.

[Stino]

Much well yeah for me much easier but then again if there is no budget that would also be a potential bad flag because it turns them back to your velocity piece where people don't believe that customer success is that maybe also mean driver of revenue within the company right?

[Kristi]

Absolutely. Okay another red flag they're not investing in the product. Right because here's the thing you're like if you're working in a SaaS company and your company is not building a product that your customers need so I mean listen if you're looking in and the number of feature requests that list is just infinitely getting longer and nobody is looking at it nobody is doing anything to address those if your product team is only building some like future state solution that nobody needs and or wants that's going to make it difficult if they're only building for new prospects but not for their customer base those are things that you need to pay attention to if they're not innovating at all we've seen listen a lot of companies go through layoffs the past two years product teams are included in that so we know that teams are resource constraint if they are not building a product and continuing to innovate in a way that your customers can be successful using what they've paid for guess what whoever this is you're gonna fail because at the end of the day like you're gonna not be able to do anything because your product sucks so there's no any there's no CS professional who can bridge the gap for a shit product.

[Stino]

No that's true because there isn't any value and that is our core top function driving value so no I love that I think we have a feeling that we could go on and on and I do also have the feeling that I'm way better spotting red flags job wise than I would have a dating wise.

[Kristi]

I mean isn't that all of us?

[Stino]

True like I've dated so many red flags in my life it's sad.

[Kristi]

I mean my whole 20s were a big red flag. True like all of my 20s like from 21 to 29 and then I met my husband but that is the biggest green flag ever. Oh he's the biggest green flag he is such a green flag we love him so much but I think that we've given a lot of red flags and things to think of for today but I think listen the big theme here is that you have to really understand what the role is what it's not how you're going to be supported what the expectations are and make sure that you feel really aligned to how the company is moving forward if you're not aligned and you don't feel like you're going to be supported and you don't have all the things you need to be successful you have enough there to say that's probably not going to be a fit for you.

Don't let your first role be the role where you kind of struggle and fail forward use this as an opportunity to find the right role where you can learn continue to grow and flourish leave failing for a little bit further in your career it's a little less risky and that's from some personal advice.

[Stino]

And on that note thank you so much Tima to and like give us that question for people that still have burning questions the type form is still open we're still receiving questions and for now I would say this would be the last episode of 2024 and that means that we get to wish you a merry Christmas and happy holidays and all the luck and our love for 2025.

[Kristi]

Oh I love that thank you guys so much for tuning in this year we're so excited to have launched this initiative and we're really excited for 2025 we've got a lot of cool things cooking so if you've got more questions for us drop them in the form reach out to us on social media send us an email however you feel comfortable asking those questions we're here to answer so for everybody we hope you have a wonderful rest of your year a good end of month a good end of quarter a good end of year I hope you all are just like shining with revenue all over lots of ARR NRR everywhere but excited to to bring this back into 2025.

[Stino]

Awesome thank you so much guys talk to you soon.

[Kristi]

Bye.

[Voiceover]

You've been listening to the Customer Success Hotline produced by Lifetime Value Media and a member of the Lifetime Value Media Network. Visit the show at lifetimevalue.link slash csh for links to each episode, show notes, and instructions on how to submit your burning questions.