#TDSU Episode 213:

⏱️ Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Intro

00:01:46 - Ian’s vague but impactful job

00:02:50 - What drives great customer success?

00:03:51 - Autonomy: customers in the driver’s seat

00:04:44 - Empowering employees with autonomy

00:06:28 - Building competence through wins

00:08:22 - Relatedness: creating real community

00:10:04 - Real-world application of the theory

00:12:15 - Wrapping up

📺 Lifetime Value: Your Destination for GTM content

Website: https://www.lifetimevaluemedia.com

🤝 Connect with the hosts:

Dillon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dillonryoung

JP's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanpierrefrost/

Rob's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-zambito/

👋 Connect with Ian Storm:

Ian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-storm/

[Ian] (0:00 - 0:28)

Where people rise up into different roles, it's the key skills to any role. You know, you got to be a little dynamic, a little fast on your feet, sort things out. But my topic for you guys today, this is probably just me justifying some crushing student loan debt, to be honest.

But as a psychology major, I was introduced to this concept of self-determination theory. I think you can use that to drive great customer experiences and employee experiences just through three simple categories.

[Dillon] (0:37 - 0:47)

What's up, lifers, and welcome to The Daily Standup with lifetime value where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I got my man JP with us. JP, can you say hi?

[JP] (0:48 - 0:49)

Konichiwa.

[Dillon] (0:50 - 0:57)

And we have Rob with us. Rob, can you please say hi?

Expletive free, please.

[Rob] (0:58 - 1:06)

I'm just going to say if anyone's looking for a youth large Jets jersey, I might know somebody who's trying to get rid of one. But hello.

[Dillon] (1:06 - 1:14)

And we have Ian with us. Ian, can you please say hi?

[Ian] (1:16 - 1:19)

Hey, guys, I'll keep it simple. I don't want to follow JP's lead here.

[Dillon] (1:21 - 1:35)

Bonjour. And I am your host. My name is Dillon Young.

Ian, thank you so much for being here. Can you please introduce yourself? Are you in a basement, Ian, by the way?

[Ian] (1:36 - 1:40)

Not to brag. Doing pretty good over here. Yeah, I'm in my basement.

All right.

[Dillon] (1:40 - 1:46)

No, I mean, the cinder block walls give it away, but it's nice. You got a nice little vibe. Ian, can you please introduce yourself?

[Ian] (1:46 - 2:09)

Yeah, so off to a great start. So Ian Storm, I'm the director of strategic solutions at Aspect, which very vague title because I do vague things. Whatever connects people and ideas for some really cool outcomes, I do it, whether it's sales product or marketing.

So I definitely loved you guys' episode about the SAS Spirit Animal. Very much loved that life. Loved that episode.

[Dillon] (2:09 - 2:50)

Cool. All right. Well, so now we know when this is being recorded.

Rob is at his nadir as a Jets fan, while Ian has put another bookend on. You know it happened after a certain point. So thank you guys for doing the thing I ask everybody not to do.

That's OK. Ian, we're really happy to have you here regardless. You know what we do here.

We ask every single guest one simple question, and that is what is on your mind when it comes to customer success? Though you did not mention that at all. You said sales product marketing.

Interesting. So I'm very interested to hear how you're going to weave customer success into that, or maybe just SAS in general. Why don't you tell us what that is for you?

[Ian] (2:50 - 3:31)

Yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like you guys hit it on that SAS Spirit Animal episode. Like I loved Rob's example where people rise up into different roles.

It's the key skills to any role. You know, you got to be a little dynamic, a little fast on your feet, sort things out. But my topic for you guys today, this is probably just me justifying some crushing student loan debt, to be honest.

But as a psychology major, I was introduced to this concept of self-determination theory. And I think you can use that to drive great customer experiences and employee experiences just through three simple categories. You guys want me to roll right into it?

I thought the dramatic pause would be like jaws dropped. OK, I'll keep going.

[Dillon] (3:31 - 3:49)

No, I'm mad at you. I'm mad at you, Ian. I don't even know you, but you're just playing into Rob's hand.

Did you see the way he lit up when you said like a kid going to Chuck E. Cheese when you use the term psychology? You started with psychology and you ended with theory.

And I knew we were completely. But go ahead.

[Ian] (3:51 - 4:16)

Oh, so I'm going to just jump through you guys the hot potato, see if you guys are picking up what I'm putting down here. So, number one, so these are three basic human needs that people need to feel feel good about where they're at in life. Right.

You'd think it's money and all these extrinsic things. No, no. All on the inside entrance.

Number one, autonomy. So how about I'll hop it over to JP here. What's an example of a customer experience where the customer can feel some autonomy?

[VO] (4:17 - 4:22)

When they can come to that community, sign up and look for a question they need answered. Right.

[Ian] (4:22 - 4:43)

Do it all themselves. Which channel that they get to pick. Right.

That's the talk. Maybe I don't want to talk to you. Maybe I just want to text you.

Maybe I want to go to the knowledge center and read up about it. Give people options. They feel in control of how they're driving their own experience.

And the same is true on the employee side. Right. So how about just to be fair, Rob, employee autonomy.

What do you got? Sounds like you've been a leader of people before.

[Rob] (4:44 - 5:11)

Yeah, well, I've learned I actually learned a lesson from a mom. She said she's like I learned a lot about training my or giving my customers choices by giving my kids choices. And she said, I don't ask my kids anymore.

What do they want for dinner? I asked them, do you want hot dogs or hamburgers? And so having a limited forced choice with constraints was like her optimality with her kids and with her customers.

So she would offer her customers during onboarding, like you have a fast option. We have a slow option. Take your pick.

But you're not getting to set your dates. But yeah, plenty of examples.

[Ian] (5:12 - 5:13)

Have you guys had Rob's mom on as a guest?

[Rob] (5:14 - 5:17)

I kind of feel like it was a mom, not mom.

[VO] (5:17 - 5:22)

He says you're your mom. Wow. Wow.

[Dillon] (5:23 - 5:26)

Staying true to the Jets, Bill's rivalry here.

[Ian] (5:27 - 5:31)

I had to suffer for a long time to get the upper hand. You know, we could you're still suffering.

[Dillon] (5:31 - 5:33)

You're still so I don't know what you mean.

[Ian] (5:34 - 5:40)

It's not past tense. You're riding too high off that Eagles Super Bowl. And, you know, it hurts.

It hurts a little bit.

[Dillon] (5:41 - 5:48)

Yeah. Well, if we're going to take the podcast today is parade day, everybody. So today is the Eagles Super Bowl victory parade.

[VO] (5:49 - 5:51)

As long as it ain't the Chiefs, baby. Hmm.

[Dillon] (5:51 - 5:56)

Which it is decidedly not. All right. Go on, Ian.

I'm sorry.

[Ian] (5:57 - 6:28)

I'll bounce back despite the very personal heartbreak for you guys that don't know. I live in Western New York. That's all we got.

There's like nothing else to do here. So like it cuts deep when the bills get insulted. I'll move past.

I'll move past. So the second thing is competency. Right.

Not only am I in control of the way in which I act in this world, but I feel like I'm capable at it. Right. You know, I don't feel overwhelmed.

I don't feel stupid. So I put everyone on the spot. So, Dillon, naturally, you seem like a very soft fella.

Why don't you tell us about some competency in that, you know, customer experience and or employee experience? What comes to mind for you?

[Dillon] (6:28 - 6:32)

I'm sorry. Can I clarify? Did you call me soft?

[Ian] (6:33 - 6:40)

Because I picked up the vibe that you're the opposite. You're very you seem very tactile, tactile, like very scientific approach kind of guy.

[Dillon] (6:41 - 7:10)

Yes, exactly. OK, so competency for me is, dude, this is going to be way too squishy for me, but I guess it's in helping. Are you talking about helping folks like experience like wins in some ways, like time to value?

Or like are you talking about the actual practice of like celebrating small wins for your customers? Like, I guess I'm not sure you could go in a million different directions with this.

[Ian] (7:10 - 7:55)

Exactly. That's why I got that vague job title. There's no wrong answers.

It's all good stuff. You get to always be right. OK, but yeah, so like to your point, right.

So if I wanted to be like real tangible about it, like, you know, have like a very firm approach for the employee, it's all right. If you do these five skills, you know, Robert mentioned customer support going into QA on one previous episode. That's an example of competency where you have leveled up someone in their game so much that they're changing job titles.

And then you talked about Dillon on the flip side. Yeah. So like customer, it could be time to value, right, where like they feel so good about using your product that they like have a real grip on it, where, you know, the student becomes the master.

They're off and running. They feel great that they're really getting the full value realization of the product.

[Dillon] (7:56 - 7:56)

Interesting.

[Ian] (7:57 - 7:59)

All right. That's not too squishy, right? That's not too squishy.

[Dillon] (7:59 - 8:22)

No, I think it is very squishy, but I'm going to avoid not tearing down your idea. But I guess my question was about to be tie it all together for us. So like give give us a tactical example of those those three pieces of the self-determination theory.

We're still waiting on three. I thought we did three. It was autonomy, competency.

And what was yours, Rob?

[Ian] (8:22 - 8:32)

So number three is relatedness. Got to make people feel like they're a part of a team. They're part of something bigger than themselves.

So don't worry, I won't do the hot potato thing. I won't put you guys in an uncomfortable spot. I think you guys get what I'm putting down here.

[Rob] (8:32 - 8:34)

What's your sense of relatedness?

[Ian] (8:34 - 8:35)

Me personally?

[Rob] (8:35 - 8:37)

Hot potato. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ian] (8:37 - 9:19)

Yeah. So for me, boy, that is a great question. It's really authentic interactions.

Now you want soft and squishy. That's as soft and squishy as it gets. Right.

But, you know, you you've hit it when sort of like it's sports or when you're at work, when people are pinging questions off each other with no hesitation, where they're like, oh, man, JP is going to make fun of me being a Bills fan or, you know, like if they're just like, screw it, I'm still going to talk to JP. He knows his stuff. That's when you know you actually have a real community.

Like when people have a hard time quitting the job or quitting your company, it's because of that relatedness. They feel like they're a part of a user community where people are swapping really cool ideas, whether it's internal or external. That's what relatedness is to me, at least.

[Rob] (9:19 - 10:04)

Yeah, I actually see this with a client. They build a directory for mental health centers and their clients feel like they're part of something. They feel like they're not just working with a vendor.

They feel like they're genuinely working with an industry partner who's driving thought leadership in the space. So it's interesting because they're now that I think of it through this framework, their clients experience autonomy, having the choice to set their budget and set their ad campaigns within this platform. They feel competence because they're often achieving their goals of driving on their missions and, you know, filling their centers with people who need help.

And they're feeling relatedness because they're feeling this relationship to the broader company mission, broader industry mission and vision. So, yeah, that's actually a really interesting way to package this all together. I like it.

[Ian] (10:04 - 10:13)

I went over a third, at least. I'm feeling good that me and Rob are sharing the vibe, still in that face. I feel like we're in court and you're about to come down hard on me.

[Dillon] (10:13 - 11:40)

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, not at all.

I think it's a hard thing to, I mean, you want to talk about squishiness and there's no wrong answers. That to me, I have difficulty in squaring the concept if I can put anything in every one of those buckets. So that's my that's my personal challenges.

I understand the first two relatedness. I actually think I would tie back to what I think you actually should think about this. Let me see if I can talk into it within each one of your customer interaction channels.

Right. So if you think about an omni-channel approach, I love this idea of giving them the autonomy to figure out their problem. Right.

Maybe it's coming to you directly. Maybe it's through a community. Maybe it's through an FAQ, something like that.

And then I think different pieces relate to each of those, like this idea of relatedness. If you resonate more with being with relatedness, then you might go to the community and be a part of a community. Whereas if you value autonomy and competency, you may want to try and learn it yourself through the FAQ.

And so I don't know that they all apply to everything. It's more about understanding how an individual likes to operate within that theory, that three-pronged theory you were talking about. So you're nodding your head vigorously.

Does that mean I passed the test?

[Ian] (11:40 - 12:01)

It means that, well, I spent thousands of dollars learning what you guys just intuitively picked up, like in one conversation, because, yeah, that's exactly right. It's never equal. Right.

Depends on the person, the situation. Sometimes a third of that's going to be 80 percent of the picture and the other ones are just 10 percent. Like that's exactly right.

Depends on the individual, the situation. No wrong answers.

[Rob] (12:01 - 12:11)

Well, I got you beat, man. Why we do what we do. This is the guy who pioneered self-determination theory.

I just pulled it up. The need for personal autonomy.

[VO] (12:12 - 12:13)

Let's go.

[Dillon] (12:15 - 12:26)

Why do you just have that book lying around? Ian, I got you beat. You're complaining about student loans.

I got mine in audio engineering and all I do is run a podcast that doesn't make any money. So.

[VO] (12:27 - 12:29)

Oh, come on. Come on.

[Dillon] (12:29 - 12:45)

Got more value than psychology. Hey, we got to meet because of it. So there's relatedness for you.

Ian, that is our time. Thank you so much. I love this.

It was like a little pop quiz in the middle of my day. And I have the best football team out of the four of us.

[VO] (12:45 - 12:47)

So take that, guys.

[Dillon] (12:48 - 12:53)

Ian, come back when the Bills win something worthwhile. Until then, we got to say goodbye.

[Ian] (12:54 - 12:56)

That's a rude way of saying I'm never coming back.

[JP] (13:01 - 13:32)

You've been listening to The Daily Standup by Lifetime Value. Please note that the views expressed in these conversations are attributed only to those individuals on this recording and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of their respective employers. For all inquiries, please reach out via email to Dillon at lifetimevaluemedia.com.

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